Talk:Free will

Around the interwebtubes

For free will

[1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]

Against free will

[10], [11], [12]

Quora question

I floated this question out on Quora: [13] — Joey 04:27, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Todo

• Re-read chapter 7 of Young, Restless, No Longer Reformed.
• Re-read John Tvedtnes’s article Agency vs. Predestinatiom.

— Joey 15:42, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Verse list from Society of Evangelical Arminians

A list of verses “compiled by many members of the Society of Evangelical Arminians” can be found here. It contains the following passages in a section titled “Verses that show man has libertarian free will”:

Free will offering verses

Ex 35:29; 36:3; Lev 7:16; 22:18, 21, 23; 23:38; Nu 15:3; 29:39; Dt 12:6, 17; 16:10; 2Ch 31:14; 35:8; Ezr 1:4, 6; 3:5; 7:16; 8:28; Ps 119:108; Eze 46:12; Am 4:5

Other free will verses

Isa 1:19-20; Eze 33:11; Lk 7:30; Jn 7:17; 1Co 7:37; 10:13

“Choose”, “chose”, “chosen”, choice”

I've now finished thorough searches for the key words “choose”, “chose”, “choice”. It's remarkable to me what a high percentage of occurrences of this verb (44 out of 73, so far) have not man as the subject but God. As far as the Bible is concerned, it seems God is the one who does most of the choosing. — Joey 18:06, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I should probably give this list and the list in the main topic article one more look through, but for the most part the list in the main article is every moral or immoral choice made by man, and the list below is every amoral choice. Every other instance of “choose”, “chose”, “chosen” or “choice” (roughly 400 occurrences altogether) in the Bible is either used adjectively or, if used as a verb, has God as its subject, not man.

More instances of "choose", "chose", "choice"

Choose: Ex 17:9; Nu 14:4; Dt 1:13; 1Sa 17:8; 2Sa 17:1; 1Ki 18:23, 25; Job 7:15; 9:14; 15:5; 34:4, 33; Isa 44:14; Ac 15:22; Php 1:22; He 11:25; Chose: Gen 6:2; 13:11; Ex 18:25; Dt 33:21; Jos 8:3; 1Sa 13:2; 17:40; 2Sa 10:9; 1Ch 19:19; Job 29:25; Lk 14:7; Ac 6:5; 15:40; Chosen: Ex 14:7; 15:4; Nu 16:2; 26:9; Jdg 5:8; 10:14; 1Sa 8:18; 12:13; 20:30; 2Sa 16:18; Job 36:21; Ps 16:5; Ps 119:30, 173; Pr 16:16; 22:1; Isa 1:29; Lk 10:42

— Joey 03:11, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

“Will”, “willing”, “willful”

In the overwhelming majority of cases, as should be obvious, “will” is used as an auxiliary modifying an infinitive to make it future tense (i.e. someone will do something). I've collected below all the places where “will” is used as an independent verb or noun clearly describing someone’s choice or intent (excluding God’s).

Todo:

Done: pentateuch (585), historical books (576), wisdom books (720), major prophets (1133), minor prophets (315), gospel (669), epistles (351), apocalyptic books (97)

“Will”, “willing”, “willful”, “willfully”, “unwilling”

Ge 23:8, 13; 24:5, 8; Nu 24:13; Jdg 8:25; Ru 3:13; 2Sa 3:37; 12:4; 1Ki 22:49; 1Ch 19:19; 28:21; Neh 11:2; Mt 1:19; 11:14; 21:31; 23:4, 37; 26:41; Mk 14:38; Lk 12:47; 13:34; 23:25; Jn 1:13; 5:35; 7:17; 8:44; Rom 9:16; 1Co 9:17; 16:12; 2Co 8:19; 9:5; Eph 6:7; Php 1:15; 1Th 3:1; 2Th 3:10; Jas 3:4; 1Pe 5:2; 2Pe 1:21; 2:10

Satan has a will

Lk 4:6; 2Ti 2:26

Animals have wills?

Job 39:9

The wind has a will?

Jn 3:8

Is a person’s last will and testament relevant here? If so, Heb 9:16–17 should be on the list.

“free”, “freely”, “freedom”

“free”, “freely”, “freedom”

Dt 15:10; 1Ch 29:9, 17; Ezr 1:6; 7:13, 15; Ps 110:3; Pr 11:24

Relevant? Jer 2:31

Verses that may or may not fit under any of the foregoing categories

Uncategorized

Ps 17:3; Isa 30:1, 15; Jer 18:12; 22:4–5; 42:9–17; Mt 17:12 (Mk 9:13); Jas 1:13–14

Greek words for “will”

From GreatTreasures.org, the Greek words for “will” and their occurrences in the NT:

• θέλημα (62x) neuter noun — 60 of these are speaking about God’s will. Only a couple are speaking about man’s will.
• θέλησις (1x) feminine noun — This single occurrence is about God’s will.
• θέλω (207x) verb — Haven’t looked at these, yet.
• βούλομαι (37x) verb — Haven’t looked at these, yet.
• βούλημα (3x) noun — Haven’t looked at these, yet.

Look for hekon, hekousion used in Heb 10:26; 1Pe 5:2; 1Co 9:17.

Greek words for “choose”

From GreatTreasures.org, the Greek words for “choose” and their occurrences in the NT:

• ἐκλέγω (22x) verb
• ἐκλεκτός (22x) adjective
• ἐκλογή (7x) noun

Counterfactual knowledge

Num 22:33 — A counterfactual statement from an angel. Again, do angels know enough to make true statements of counterfactual knowledge, or is this conjecture? (Actually, the angel can state with relative confidence what he himself would have done in a hypothetical situation, so this may not qualify as a true counterfactual at all.)

Not so much counterfactuals of creaturely freedom, but explaining what God himself would do in different situations

Ex 9:15; 33:5; Dt 28:15–68; Ps 50:12; Jer 18:7–10; 26:2–4; Eze 14:14, 16, 20; 33:1–9, 13–15; Mt 26:24 (cf. Mk 14:21); Mk 6:48–49; 9:42 (cf. Lk 17:2); Jn 8:55; 11:40; 14:2; 18:36

Are these saying that if such-and-such has happened, God wouldn't hold people guilty for their sin, or that if such-and-such had happened the people wouldn’t have chosen to sin?

Mt 24:22 (cf. Mk 13:20); Jn 9:41; 15:22, 24

True counterfactuals of plantly and stonely freedom?

Lk 17:6; 19:40

Not counterfactuals, but assumptions on the part of humans about what might happen to them if they do such-and-such

Dt 5:25–27

Hebrew words for “will”

• ‪נָדִיב‪‬ #5081‬
• ‪נָדַב‬ #5068

Why do people believe in free will?

Arminians believe in free will because they see it as the only way to avoid implicating God in evil and sin. It is a form of theodicy. It is not from a high view of man, but to protect a high view of God.

It seems Mormons believe in moral agency because it is necessary for our own eternal progression [14] [15]. Their reason is much more humanistic than Arminians’. They have a more optimistic anthropology (D&C 18:10).

Calvin on free will

If anyone, then, can use this word [free will] without understanding it in a bad sense, I shall not trouble him on this account. But I hold that because it cannot be retained without great peril, it will, on the contrary, be a great boon for the church if it be abolished. I prefer not to use it myself, and I should like others, if they seek my advice, to avoid it.^[1]

Be not like a horse or a mule

Malcolm MacColl, in his letter to W. E. Gladstone titled The “Damnatory Clauses” of the Athanasian Creed Rationally Explained, cites Psalm 32:8–9 as evidence of libertarian free will. God teaches us and guides us unlike brute animals like horses or mules which require a bridle. God doesn’t constrain our wills with the metaphysical equivalent of a bridle, but leaves us free.

But man is the subject of a moral Government whose laws he may transgress if he will. His loving Father strives to attract him. He places before him life and death, and bids him choose life, and gives him grace sufficient for his needs. He does everything, in fact, to win him, short of compulsion, because compulsion would be incompatible with freedom, and therefore with virtue. “I will inform thee and teach thee in the way wherein thou shalt go, and I will guide thee with mine eye,” not “with bit and bridle,” like the lower animals “which have no understanding.” If, however, we persist in being like the horse and mule, there is no help for it; God leads us only with His eye; there is no bit and bridle to restrain us; our wills are free and we may go to ruin.^[2]

Who killed King Duncan?

In the Shakespearean play Macbeth, the character Macbeth murders King Duncan. Now (if we assume for a moment that this is a fictional account), the question may be asked, “Who killed King Duncan?” On one level, the correct answer is “Macbeth.” Within the context of the play he carried out the murder and is rightly to blame for it. But on another level, a correct answer to the question, “Who killed King Duncan?” would be “William Shakespeare”: he wrote the play, he created all the characters in it, and he wrote the part where Macbeth killed King Duncan.

It would not be correct to say that because Macbeth killed King Duncan, William Shakespeare did not kill him. Nor would it be correct to say that because William Shakespeare killed King Duncan, Macbeth did not kill him. Both are true. On the level of the characters in the play Macbeth fully (100 percent) caused King Duncan’s death, but on the level of the creator of the play, William Shakespeare fully (100 percent) caused King Duncan’s death. In similar fashion, we can understand that God fully causes things in one way (as Creator), and we fully cause things in another way (as creatures).^[3]

Corey’s open future prooftexts

God changes his mind

Ex 32:14; Nu 14:12–20; Dt 9:13–14, 18–20, 25; 1Sa 2:27–36; 2Ki 20:1–7; 1Ch 21:15; Jer 26:19; Eze 20:5–22; Am 7:1–6; Jnh 1:2; 3:2, 4–10

God states he will change his mind

Jer 18:7–11; 26:2–3; Eze 33:13–15

God’s willingness to change is an attribute of greatness

Joel 2:13–14; Jnh 4:2

God expresses regret—even over things resulting from his own will

Ge 6:5–6; 1Sa 15:10, 35; Eze 22:29–31

God gets surprised by outcomes

Isa 5:3–7; Jer 3:6-7, 19–20

God tests people to find out if they will be faithful

Ge 22:12; Ex 16:4; Dt 8:2; 13:1–3; Jdg 2:20–23; 3:1–5; 2Ch 32:31; Abr 3:25

God asks non-rhetorical questions about the future

Nu 14:11; Hos 8:5

God speaks of what may, may not happen

Ex 3:18–22; 4:1–9; 13:17; Jer 38:17–18, 20–21, 23; Eze 12:1–3

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1. John Calvin (2011). Institutes of the Christian Religion. (F. L. Battles, Trans., J. T. McNeill, Ed.) (Vol. 1, p. 266). Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press. #
2. Malcolm MacColl (1872). The “Damnatory Clauses” of the Athanasian Creed Rationally Explained. #
3. Grudem, Systematic Theology. #